Tami Simon of Sounds True speaks with Joanna about hope in times of chaos and dissolution, as well as how hope is something we do rather than just feel. They consider apathy as a refusal to face the inevitability of suffering and why the state of the environment can be especially heartbreaking. Finally, Tami and Joanna talk about our relationship with the earth as a natural birthright—one that is actually the source of all our energy and joy. (66 minutes)
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